Tag Archives: Small Council Read

Tyrion has turned traitor

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Hey guys,

Ryan from Dallas here. I have a couple of notes and a question/theory about the finale. (If this makes the show, feel free to selectively choose any, but #4 is the best). However, before we begin, I am glad to be redeemed for my non spoiler disclaimer last week. I’m almost happy it didn’t go down that exact path. Nothing is worse than unintentional spoilers for everyone (They didn’t even mention who sent the invitation to Sansa! I still contend it was Littlefinger). Alright, on to the good stuff.

Arya and Sansa

Despite the exhilaration and relief of the Littlefinger accusation reveal, something left a bad taste in my mouth. The show runners set up a conflict, and then jumped to the conclusion without showing the turn (or A-ha moment). It’s as if they cut a crucial scene and left everyone wondering when Arya and Sansa got on the same side. In an earlier scene in this episode, Littlefinger mentions that Jon can be unnamed as King of the North. Sansa gives a smirk, that on 2nd viewing, can be interpreted as she has discovered Littlefinger’s motives at this point and is baiting him. In their last scene together. Arya mentions to Sansa that she never would have survived what Sansa went through. So there was obviously a come to Jesus meeting in between the episodes for all of them to get caught up on everything. It would be like if Sam went to Jon and said “You’re a Targaryn” without us seeing him talk to Bran. I’m just a little sad we didn’t get to witness it. Throughout the show and it’s many surprise deaths, we have always been given the reasoning behind it. The timing or circumstances may have surprised us, but the set up scenes were always shown. Which leads to my next point.

Ungranted surprise and bloodlust

Leave it to Game of Thrones to not give us what we want. Over 6 seasons, this show has built a universe of surprise deaths. Deaths come when tension is built and when tension isn’t built. On the first viewing of this episode, I know I wasn’t the only one who watched with a clinched anus for 80something minutes. The tension was enormous. Would the Dragon Pit be a trap (especially when Bronn leads Pod away)? Would Cersei kill Tyrion or Jaime? The Jaime scene in particular was disheartening since Cersei appeared to give the order to execute him. Maybe the undead Mountain used his own restraint or moral code to not cut Jaime down in an instant? That doesn’t sound like the mindless head crusher this story has built. People may say that Jaime’s story isn’t done, and that’s what I find frustrating. This series has built a reputation for characters not finishing their own stories, but now that it’s in the final seasons, it has become every other fantasy tale. Main characters either can’t be killed or will be miraculously saved over and over until the final episode. This show has defied the fantasy genre for 6 seasons, and now it has defied our appreciation for that. This show has built a massive following upon the premise that it won’t give you a Hollywood ending. Perhaps it will after all. Apart from the massive Jaime death trolling, this leads me to who should have died this episode.

Theon should’ve bit the dust

Our dickless wonder got his moment in the sun this week. The heart to heart with Jon was truly the pep talk he needed. It would have been perfectly paired with the next scene wherein Theon gets beat to death by his own men sworn to his family. As he betrayed his Stark family, a suprising beatdown (or, better yet, a spear through the gut) from an unnamed member of his own men would have been a fitting and surprising end. He betrayed the Starks. He “betrayed” his sister twice (once when he refused to be escorted back on the rescue mission, and then he abandoned her on the ship). Now he finally finds the willpower to save her. What better story turn than to pay off all of that backstory with a swift and sudden betrayal by his own men? I can’t imagine where his story arc goes. Maybe he does find and rescue Yara with his 10 men. Then what? Will they 1up Euron and build 1000 ships and breed 1000 sailors during one episode?

Tyrion has turned traitor!

Everyone is wondering..What did that look Tyrion gives during the late night boat sexcapades mean? Was he jealous it wasn’t him with Dany? Or is he concerned that they will focus on each other and not be focused on the task at hand (a.k.a. it’s bad for the realm)? After a 2nd viewing, I was able to pick up on some points that lead me to think he has actually turned against them in some capacity.

The last lines of dialogue from Tyrion in this episode are during his conversation with Cersei early on. He explains that for as much as he hates Cersei, he loved her children (well, 2 of them at least). Then comes the big shocker to him: Cersei is preggers. That’s it; no more dialogue from him. Here are some other notes of dialogue during the episode.

Cersei to Jaime: “No one walks away from me”

Jorah, during the travel plan meeting, says “All it takes is one angry man with a crossbow…one well placed bolt will make him a hero. The man who killed the Conqueror” (Which character is famous for using a crossbow? Also notice that the camera intently one-shots on Tyrion during this line, and he gulps. You can then see him staring at Jorah before averting his eyes to the table.)

Although his strategic war street cred may have been slipping this season, surely Tyrion could see through Cersei’s hollow words of troop commitment. He knows her better than anyone, and yet after his “you’re pregnant” line and scene change, he and Cersei rejoin the Jon and Daenerys group, and all is well. It would truly betray the character of Tyrion if Cersei would so easily get one over on him.

Remember that Tyrion was sick to his stomach that Daenerys flambéed the Tarlys. (R.i.p. dickon) Perhaps he thinks after Daenerys conquers Westoros, she may give the same treatment to Cersei and Jaime, irregardless of child. And without any evidence to back it up, I’ll put forward that Jorah discovers Tyrion’s treachery, kills him, and becomes Dany’s hand of the queen as he always has rightfully been!

Take it easy guys. Look forward to whatever show is next!

Ryan

Targaryen and Lannister babies

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Hi!

So my working theory on Tyrion strange lurking in the shadows while Jon and Dany were together is this: The last moment Tyrion and Cersei were together before she comes out saying she will join forces to defeat the dead, is when Tyrion discovers she’s pregnant. What if Tyrion made a deal with her to promise her baby to the future child of Jon and Dany?

Cersei’s motivation besides her own power is the legacy and power of House Lannister. Her new little Lannister uniting with a potential little Stark and Targaryn is the ultimate culmination of these 3 great houses. Her child will rule no matter what.

Tyrion makes this back room deal to get Cersei on board, and now seeing the lovers is feeling the weight of this betrayal and its potential consequences. I just don’t buy he’s in love with Dany and his feelings are hurt. He’s done something he regrets. Anyway, enjoy the podcast and can’t wait to hear your theories!

Maggy

GoT season Finale Questions, Theories, and Clarifications

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Dear Gene and Big D,

I apologize beforehand for the long post, but I promise it is interesting if you end up reading it on the small council, you can skip over some least interesting parts. First of all my thanks to you for this season, I can’t even imagine how I’ll be working out at the gym without your flaming discussions in my ears; I’d be literally pulling off 120 mins of cardio sometimes just to finish the episode. Be proud.

Here are my character speculations, and some interesting facts along with it, hope you enjoy it.

Cersei

Transitioned from being a mother to being a leader, and it seems as of now that she might be back to her old ways.

After losing her children, she looked fearless but sensible, she wanted to rule, to make alliances, to deal with the financial situation and to “reestablish control all over this continent, and everyone on it.” Although this phrase sounded quite intimidating back during the “Spoils of War” episode, it belonged to a true leader, yes an authoritarian leader, but still a leader. And by a leader, I mean someone who serves the interests of the country, someone who understands the economics of the country, things like for people to work they need to eat, have jobs and feel safe at least on a very basic level, etc. At one point I even had a terrifying idea invading my mind, I thought that she could realistically, potentially be a better leader among all of those that currently exist in the realm. But she got pregnant, and, our President would have loved it, all of the sudden started being irrational, irritable, rude and even delusional. She once told Sansa, that people do stupidest things for those whom they love, while advising her to love no one but her children, since on that front a mother has no choice. She is definitely living up to that notion, once again, only now she has no more people to back her and her family up, if she screws up again, she is alone with the “Frankenstein” and his beast by her side.

Tyrion

To be honest he made me worried, what if his allegiances have changed in that room, or never changed at all. What if in his sick way he wants to prove something to Cersei, that he is worthy of the Lannister last name, or that he has outsmarted them all, what if? Plenty of real world examples show that the need to prove something to get back at those who didn’t approve of you or didn’t believe in you, make some very intelligent people do the most horrible things. Take Hitler for example, and some speculate that if he, in fact, was taken seriously with his art, and accepted by the artist community, he wouldn’t have become Hitler we know after all.

We didn’t see how Tyrion managed to persuade Cersei and when the audience is being deceived that way, on Game of Thrones it usually means that something is up. Something that D & D want us to find out when we least expect it, I guess for us to perceive the feelings of the targeted character better. Like with the Little finger, Sansa and Arya, it wouldn’t have given us such a thrill if we knew things all along. We needed to see it through his eyes, the flashbacks, however, would have been highly appreciated, according to some, but it’s not a soap opera after all, and we don’t explain to our enemies in front of everyone how we plotted against them, thank god for that.

So, can it be that Cersei promised him something that he always wanted? Can it be, that she has something against him? Can it be that Tyrion, despite his sense and understanding of the reality still has a soft spot for a family? He once said to Jamie, that the fact that Jamie has doubts about Tyrion’s allegiances wounds him, and that he should know how much affection and love he has for his family. Alright, yes, it is too far of a stretch, on this show we know that people change, grow up etc. like in real life, but still, this look on his face gives me creeps.

Talking about the heir to the iron throne, I wonder who did he have in mind? Attacking Castly Rock, even though, I am pretty sure that he should have known that the primary Lannister forces are no longer there, they are at war for the crown, of course, they are in Kings Landing, silly. The Myriad of his dumb ideas this season, including the one with going beyond the wall to get the white, to show it to Cersei. That is just sooo not Tyrion, or was he trying to get rid of Jon so he can sit by the fire with Dany, drink wine and cunningly screen Dany’s feeling towards Jon? Its either he hasn’t been around his sister for a long enough time and forgot what she’s really like, or he’s gone soft and naive, because to assume that Cersei, would, in fact, drop everything and run north to save the world, that is just too dumb, for Tyrion at least, because he knows Cersei pretty much his whole life. Or, he is plotting something, may be he is plotting something on our side, but he is/was up to something.

I remember there was a theory that what if the Littlefinger is a Severus Snape of Game of Thrones. That would be too good to be true, and I mean, its Game of Thrones we are talking about, we just had an incest happened in front of our eyes, with the child-narrator explaining their blood relationships to us, and we ship it, we sail it, we fly it. Could it be that talking in familiar terms, Tyrion is an antithesis of Severus Snape? Our favorite character since season 1, with the least number of absent episodes of the entire series, 6 out of 67 isn’t it at least a bit weird though, that he is the only character that was almost in every episode, except the few, that’s a lot of screen time, why? Yes on “game of thrones” people change, grow up etc. but what if they also downshift? What if we grew to love Tyrion over the course of the past 7 years, just so he can break our hearts in the end. I dont know, G. R. R. Martin said on the interview, that before all, “the song of ice and fire” is about the quests for power, individual, unique but still for power. So I am curious now, will there be a moral in the end, will the classic hero bring the evils of the world its demise.

Lastly, I wanted to touch upon the Targs and their inherent affinity to each other, about Jon and Dany’s love and public’s longing for it, and now public’s grossing out about it, which is probably due to Bran’s perverted narration, ugh=).

Over the course of 7 years, we have been primed as an audience that it is a regular practice for Targaryens to inbreed. Agon Targaryen had two sister wives! Aryes the “Mad King” had his sister as his wife which makes Dany herself a product of incest and the more direct one. We’ve been told over and over, in the books and the show, that Targaryens tried to preserve their Valiryen blood, to maintain their connection with the Dragons.

Yes, as many have noted, when Jon finds out, he will probably freak out and it will most likely be hard for him to proceed with it. But Jon probably will not even feel like a Targaryen, he is a Stark, like Theon is a Stark. I believe, that the fact that Jon emphasized that Theon is as much a Stark as he is Greyjoy, is a way to prepare the audience and to soften our categorical incest thinking.

Even from the normal human perspective, it should be much harder for him to wed Sansa, for instance, rather than Dany. We form our family bonds mostly through the initial knowledge of being related to someone and through the bonds that we form growing up with one another. We do not have the genetic moral compass or a predisposition for not being attracted to own blood.

After all, from the genetics perspective, the only real implication for having an alliance with the close blood relative is that the unwanted genetic material, if such exists, like diseases, physical characteristics, mental disorders, etc. have a higher likelihood of being manifested. The real world example – hemophilia, also known as a “royal disease,” a genetic disorder that due to inbreeding persisted in European royal family and made Rasputin famous, however, it is important to understand that incestual relationship did not cause it, just made it more likely to be manifested.

Incest is still wrong though, just to clarify, it is unnatural and gross, but so were/are many other things, seriously…

Enough now…

Thanks again to you two, I wish you all the best, both of you!

ZARINA from San Francisco, CA

Where Is Gendry?

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Hey guys love the show!

This episode was awesome but left me with a couple questions. For example, WHERES GENDRY?! I feel like no ones asking themselves this. Is he at eastwatch? If so they didn’t show him with tourmund and beric so are we assuming he’s dead? Did they really bring him back to fight at eastwatch then die at wall? Doesn’t seem likely but I don’t get why every single character was literally shown even if they didn’t speak (like grey worm and messandi) literally every main character was shown this episode – where the heck is he?!?

Second question

If cersi had this planned to doublecross John and Dany the whole time, why the whole show? Why did she bother inviting them all to dragon pit? Jon and dany we’re going north regardless if she agreed to this or not… Why did she the lore Tyrion in for that conversation? Why did she basically lead him on to the conclusion that she was pregnant? (You can tell that was important she wanted him to figure that out) I know people are speculating that Tyrion has alternative motives and that they might have come to an agreement that her child could take the Thorne after Dany? The whole cant have a baby storyline keeps popping up over and over again, Again just theories but this would only hold up if she kept her end of the bargain of going north.

I get the whole story telling side to it and trust me I fully enjoyed this episode, I just find it difficult to believe that she conspired with euron and still put on this whole show, like what does she gain out of lying to them? I can’t figure this one out, help!

Love the show! Going to miss you guys!

Until season 8!
– Jenna (from NY)

Theon has a lot to prove in Season 8

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Hey guys,

Wanted to write in this week about Theon’s story arc and respond to Big D directly. Throughout the course of the show, Theon has been a character that many feel sorry for because his suffering is ongoing. As much as he may have deserved the torture and the ridicule, it was clear that he became a broken man in need of redemption. I think in the season finale, Theon redeemed himself, but only half way.

As both a Greyjoy and a Stark, Theon has two redemption arcs that will lead to his ultimate change of character. By freeing Sansa from the Boltons and finally seeking Jon’s forgiveness, Theon has redeemed himself as a Stark. As a Greyjoy, however, he can only redeem his past misgivings by attempting to rescue Yara as she did for him. Theon will likely head to Pyke to confront Euron and rescue his sister, but the audience knows Euron has actually taken his fleet east in order to escort Cersei’s new army. If Yara is held captive aboard Euron’s ship, she is as good as dead. Yet, if Theon can travel back to Pyke to save Yara, the two of them may even be able to reclaim the Iron Islands and make good on their allegiance with Dany. Keeping Theon around for this long must imply he has a role to play in the Great War, but that will only happen if he can let go of Reek completely.

I can understand the frustration in watching Theon over the course of the series because at many points his personality has been defined by weakness, submissiveness and fear. Despite these flaws, Theon is a main character (a perspective character in the books even) and to have him killed off by a nameless iron islander would feel completely unceremonious within the context of the show. Some fans may lose their patience with watching Theon’s pathetic attempts at survival, but they would lose faith in the show entirely if they spent seasons watching him on screen just to die in a lame fight like that. Granted, the groin kicks were totally ridiculous, but the point is that he is trying to embody the person he always wanted to be. Even in S7E2, we see him kill like a handful of Euron’s men so it seems like he’s not totally hopeless after all.

As the last living son of Balon Greyjoy, the rightful heir to Pyke and a contender for ruler of the Iron Islands, Theon has a lot to prove in season 8. However, he’s not the only character that has survived this long through fear and submissiveness. In many ways those same characteristics defined Sansa, yet she has become one of the most clever and powerful women in Westeros. If she can grow and change into a more powerful version of herself, I’d like to think Theon can as well. Ironic though that he only has the balls now to stand up for what’s right, this late in the series.

From,

Jack